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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 6/10/2008 8:27:34 PM
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Just bought ordered the book....
I've looked here on the forum for specific answers to questions about the creation of H in the first place.
This has always been the conundrum. We've always been able to create hydrogen it just takes energy. Usually equal or greater amount of energy making gas or diesel fuels the preferred fuel.
On a good day, it takes one unit of power to liberate the same amount of energy in hydrogen.
You can't make it up in volume. (Sorry, bad joke)
I do realize this is a booster and not the sole fuel source.
So ...I take it we are not talking strictly electrolysis but a catalyst, baking soda or NaHCO3?
There is a chemical reaction that has substantially reduced the amount of energy required to break the chemical bonds of the water molecule?
Can someone show me the chemistry formula behind this?
My real question is: If the booster is not killing the battery and the alternator is able to keep the battery charged, how much energy in the form of H is the unit able to produce?
What are the units of measure?
Steam is measure in pound of water per hour.
How is the H gas measured?
"The most terrifying words in the English
language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." ~ Ronald Reagan
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Administrator
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If you are looking for the science behide H.H.O. production and usage, Click Here
USA, Ohio
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Forum Newbie
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Thank you for that Admin but I still didn't find what I was looking for.
In one of the documents it described a hydrogen generator requiring up to 500W to produce a given quantity of hydrogen. It doesn't say how much hydrogen is produced. Later models, it says, reduced to 75 W.
Since I still don't know how much H (or power) the W4G booster produces I can only guess.
Using the 75W input I gleaned from the article you linked ... on a 12V system this amounts to about 6 or 7 amps load on my electrical system ... well within the ability of alternators to keep a battery charged.
Yet, I still don't know how much volume, BTU's, heat energy or whatever unit of measure is actually being sucked into the engine.
I have a 350 HP Mack concrete pumping truck. Carter, the guy on your advertising page, uses what is called a 6-pack. I think I can assume this consists of 6 units run in series.
So 6 units times 6 amps each equal 36 Amps.
12V x 36 Amps = 432 watts = .57 Horsepower.
So using data I'm unsure about ... my conclusion is I'm inputting about .5 Hp of electrical/chemical energy when producing Hydrogen or Brown's Gas... H.H.O..
It seems that increased efficiencies or power increase are about 15%.
If my engine produces 350 Hp as advertised by Mack, a 15 % increase would be 350 x 1.15 = 402 Hp....at times.
402 Hp minus 350 Hp = a 52 Hp increase ..... at times.
I know my numbers could be way off but would I be correct in suggesting that your Water4Gas Booster requires somewhere's around .6 Hp to produce and extra 51 Hp for my case in point???
Also.... what happens when the engine is operating in the Jake mode?
"The most terrifying words in the English
language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." ~ Ronald Reagan
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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 10/2/2008 7:14:41 PM
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you just made my head explode with all that math! Hydrogen boosters do not make negative gains like some scientists claim they do. Basically you will get more power out of it, than what is required to run the booster. How much, well if anyone has a clue I think your math is pretty close but I really don't think anyone has actually done a dyno pull to get some hard facts.
your alternator on a big truck should be somewhere around the mid 150's in amps, maybe closer to 200 amps so you will have plenty of extra to draw as much as you want. You will want to run a six pack or two six packs, for a engine that size. Also you may want to look at what some others have suggested with a small air pump to boost the output and overcome the lack of vacuum in diesels.
Realistically though ozzie doesn't have too much time to chat with us, but there are lots of helpful people here. So if you have any specific install questions start a new tread in a sub-forum.
Oh and in jake brake mode, the engine is turned into a giant air compressor as usual. The H.H.O. will build up on the other side of the intake valves waiting to get in, just the same as the air coming in. You may see a very slight sudden rise in rpms when the extra H.H.O. finds it's way in.
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1984 Buick Lesabre Hearse 307 cid (next H.H.O. project)
1993 Ford Ranger 2.3 liter (current H.H.O. project)
1994 Ford Aerostar 3.0 liter
2001 Buick Century 3.1 liter
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Forum Newbie
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I have noticed that some manufacturers can rate their device’s output in terms of liters or gallons per hour.
This has been a question left unanswered for me too, specifically how to measure the output of H.H.O. from the device in those terms?
It seems to me that it would be easier for a manufacturer/installer to adjust for various sized engines with that information.
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Administrator
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There is currently no standard because there is no known amounts of H.H.O. that as been scientifically proven to be a constant under all conditions. It's the problem with this new technology, proof is currently more expensive than results. Just go for the results now and when enough of us have working models, then the scientist will tell us why it works.
In life sometime all you have is a leap of faith. Just go for it!
USA, Ohio
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Forum Newbie
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1 cubic foot of H gas represents 319 BTU's.
1 horsepower equals 42 BTU's per minute.
So....
How many cubic feet of H gas is produced per minute by one of these devices?
I do recognize the subtly of what even a little amount of H gas introduced into the combustion chamber would make in boosting performance. Making the engine smoother, cooler, broader power range.....etc.
But there remains no fee lunch in power conversion.
Where is the beef?
"The most terrifying words in the English
language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." ~ Ronald Reagan
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 6/27/2008 2:14:54 PM
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| I think the "beef" is that the H.H.O. produced makes the fossil fuel burn more efficiently, causing the IC engine to get better mileage. The H.H.O. generator doesn't create energy because, as you say, there is no free lunch.
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 6/17/2008 4:41:01 PM
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| Hi Navigator When you run in series the same current goes thru each unit That is with 1 unit = 6 amps, 2 in series = 6 amps etc, if you read the manual the volts across the unit is a bit under 2 volts so for a 12 volt system you can put 6 units in series. For trucks etc that have 24 volt systems you could put 12 units in series. For more gas on 12 v then you could do 2 (or more) 6 packs in paralel. would probably pay to fuse them separately to protect each set. Now the business of what the gas does. There seems to be no definite answer to this as yet, however consider that by adding this gas to the intake air the oxygen content is being increased - on diesels the effect of turbo/super charging increases the volume of air (oxygen) in the cylinder for a fixed ammount of fuel and this does increse the burn efficiency and thus increases power output for the same fuel or increases milage foe the same power. for petrol, things are claimed to be a little different because of the way the fuel is introduced to the cylinder. This is said to require a 14.7 to 1 mix ratio so according to this if we use a turbo/super charger we are stuck with more power!! Maybe economy but you will get to where you are going quicker!! Just ask the racers. And this is why you need to modify the oxygen detecto in the exhaust i.e. more O2 in - more O2 out, although with the H supplied in the correct ratio for the extra O2 then this should recombine and the O2 output should be the same as without the addon! So more questions than answers Anyone else out there up with the science?
swampy
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 11/16/2008 10:19:54 AM
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| Hi Nav: Im a newbie here, and trying read everything on this forum. I just ran across this post, and I have seen the answer to your "beef" question here in this forum and other places on the net, including a utube video, on measuring a specific volume of H.H.O. gas produced within a given time span. They simply run their electrolyzer and displace water in a known volume container, such as a 2 liter plastic soda bottle. In the video they simply submerged a jug full of water upside down in a tub and placed the output tube in the mouth and then timed how long it took for the gas to push the water out. I think it was 30 seconds, plus or minus, (not sure), to clear a two liter bottle. I could be wrong. I am sorry that I cannot steer you to the specific locations for the information I have seen. I shoulda took notes, LOL! But I did not anticipate the opportunity to respond to your post. If, or when if I run across it again, I will notify you with the details. I can tell that by your math skills, it will not take you long to find your answer, if you knew, for example, that a given unit could produce two liters of H.H.O. in 30 seconds. It's out there somewhere...... Maybe if you asked that question of the group again somewhere that there is a lot of activity going on you will get someone to share their results if they are testing for volume. Actually, it occurs to me that I plan to do that exact test myself sometime next week and I will share my results here, because I am very curious myself about the same thing. I want to try and figure a way to push this stuff into my 7.3 L F250 and there is precious little info here as to how to do that. I thought about the aquarium pump earlier, but then started laffin at meself. Now I'm thinkin,,,, (more jugs/bigger output tubes/manifold/bigger pipe/blower motor of some type/pre-turbo venturi feed)...hmmmm don't know yet. I am not a skilled mechanic! But I'm workin on it!  And then there is the computer, is there? I gotta find out about that,,,,,,,,,,arrgh!
Escaping the surly bonds of energy despotism..Is fun  "Evil Succeeds, where Good Men do nothing!" Merced California
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