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Supreme Being
Group: Online Book Member
Last Login: 11/18/2011 12:44:47 AM
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NormNip (10/10/2008)
I guess the best thing to do is just ignore Dayfel's posts and just work around him like so much wasted space. What a bummer. I hope we can keep this topic going. I suppose its success had to inevitably attract some opposing views but so much from one person?He's figured out that if he makes enough posts, he'll become a supreem being. I guess he thinks that people will listen to him then.  If I were him, I think I would be careful. I believe the commandment that, "Thou shalt not use My Name in vain" is still active.
Walking Eagle, Last of the Visionaries
Bakersfield, CA
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Supreme Being
Group: Online Book Member
Last Login: 11/18/2011 12:44:47 AM
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davfel (10/10/2008)
Yes Norm,
from one person. I really do not care that people are out to steal from others. I do not like it in the least. Please accept my appologies if I have offended you. You aren't out there scamming people are you Norm?
dave
Was this a "slip of the mind"?
Walking Eagle, Last of the Visionaries
Bakersfield, CA
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 8/29/2009 10:33:40 AM
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we37 (10/10/2008)
NormNip (10/10/2008)
I guess the best thing to do is just ignore Dayfel's posts and just work around him like so much wasted space. What a bummer. I hope we can keep this topic going. I suppose its success had to inevitably attract some opposing views but so much from one person?He's figured out that if he makes enough posts, he'll become a supreem being. I guess he thinks that people will listen to him then. If I were him, I think I would be careful. I believe the commandment that, "Thou shalt not use My Name in vain" is still active. Amen.
NormTempe, Arizona
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 9/4/2011 7:49:33 PM
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Dear GROUP,
I SO deeply regret that our Peace and Fellowship has been disrupted by two miscreants, DAVFEL and theincubus. Their baseless, inaccurate and hateful RANTS are most disturbing.One assertion, when speaking of Hydrogen Embrittlement -- has NOTHING to do with the Hydrogen 'burning hotter'. But refers to metals being subject to becoming 'brittle' over time, (breaking suddenly), due to being in contact with a strong hydrogen presence. MOST W4G experimenters will never encounter this phenomenon, because their Anodes (primarily) will have long since been corroded away. Another affirmation, on 'Hydrogen Build-up' is equally erroneous. Go ask a TRUE expert: your local bottled gas provider -- those the Manufacture, Bottle and Sell; Acetylene, Oxygen, Helium ... and Hydrogen gases. They will tell you that Hydrogen CANNOT be STORED in 'bottles' that WOULD Hold: Acetylene, Oxygen, Helium..! The molecule is simply TOO Tiny, TOO light, TOO Difficult to Capture and Hold, without further, more costly means. For now, please IGNORE them -- help is on the way.
Bob Foreman
The Science behind HOD / W4G is called "Cathodic Protection" (CP)Atlanta, GA
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 3/5/2009 9:31:09 PM
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| forum guru? davfel
The truth is: Norm, WE37 and Bob have contributed more to this endeavor than you
ever will, and if there is a plant, it has to be you. You are the only ***---- here. When you fantasize that you speak for "us in the forum", it's an insult to the forum. Even a mindless idiot should know "Rants and Flames" and "Off Topic" categories are way more relevant to your off topic BS. You could look for other rude, simpletons to bond with and maybe, there, speak for "us in the forum". If all was fair, the adults here could vote you off, delete your rude confusion, and re-establish a train of thought.
So, if you have a grain of real concern about "us"...BAN YOURSELF IMMEDIATLY or at least shut the f--- up! Stop wasteing the time & bandwidth of this excellent experimenters group.
97 Chevy Astro with 244,000 miles  Niceville Florida www.h2obay.com
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 8/29/2009 10:33:40 AM
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bob foreman (10/11/2008)
Dear GROUP,
I SO deeply regret that our Peace and Fellowship has been disrupted by two miscreants, DAVFEL and theincubus. Their baseless, inaccurate and hateful RANTS are most disturbing. One assertion, when speaking of Hydrogen Embrittlement -- has NOTHING to do with the Hydrogen 'burning hotter'. But refers to metals being subject to becoming 'brittle' over time, (breaking suddenly), due to being in contact with a strong hydrogen presence. MOST W4G experimenters will never encounter this phenomenon, because their Anodes (primarily) will have long since been corroded away. Another affirmation, on 'Hydrogen Build-up' is equally erroneous. Go ask a TRUE expert: your local bottled gas provider -- those the Manufacture, Bottle and Sell; Acetylene, Oxygen, Helium ... and Hydrogen gases. They will tell you that Hydrogen CANNOT be STORED in 'bottles' that WOULD Hold: Acetylene, Oxygen, Helium..! The molecule is simply TOO Tiny, TOO light, TOO Difficult to Capture and Hold, without further, more costly means. For now, please IGNORE them -- help is on the way.
Bob Foreman I don't know anything about embrittlement by hydrogen other than what I've read here on the forum and in the books. I recollect reading and it makes sense that any embrittlement would be mitigated by the fact that the water4gas is not a pure, all-hydrogen environment - there's gasoline, air and water vapor mixed in with the hydrogen in the engine's cylinder at the time of combustion. Lets not forget the lubricating oil and related vapors, carbon coating from the burnt gasoline, etc. Norm
NormTempe, Arizona
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Forum Guru
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Water Man (10/10/2008)
Yes, Steel is susceptable to embrittlement. Less as tensile strength is increased. Valves are made of hardened steel, which is very good, but you'd have to contact the manufacturer to find out what the tensile strength of the steel used to manufacture the valves in your car would be, in order to determine if embrittlement could become a factor over time. Hope that helps. Hello Group, <> While Steel IS susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement <> the conditions required are almost nonexistant in an IC engine. Our atmosphere, which the engine breathes, contains only 0.00005 percent (4 zeros) hydrogen at sealevel. http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7a.html [quote] If the metal has not yet started to crack, the condition can be reversed by removing the hydrogen source and causing the hydrogen within the metal to diffuse out - possibly at elevated temperatures. [end quote] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement  Which brings up ANOTHER point. An electrolyzer that produces 1 liter per minute -- will increase THAT percentage to 1/28th of the volume..! (I do not have my figures handy - will follow through later). It is a TREMENDOUS increase..! THIS, is what the sensors and computer are sensing <> and going Bonkers over..! IT CANNOT BE THE EXTRA OXYGEN THAT WE PROVIDE..! A 4 liter engine will aspirate about 560 liters of (atmospheric) Oxygen <> while we add only 0.33 liters of Oxygen at the same time. Think about it..! Bob Foreman
The Science behind HOD / W4G is called "Cathodic Protection" (CP)Atlanta, GA
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 8/29/2009 10:33:40 AM
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Interesting info, Bob, at the wikipedia embrittlement link you provided. Thank you. It even talks about combining with the carbon in the steel. As I read it, Wikipedia is talking about storing hydrogen under pressure over a period of time, not combusting it as soon as its under pressure as in a car cylinder - and then releasing the pressure for the exhaust. A question for us then is how much hydrogen remains uncombusted and available to embrittle; how quickly will this dangerously embrittle the combustion cylinder(few years? centuries?). If it turns out to be decades, I'm not gonna worry because I'll have a new car by then.
NormTempe, Arizona
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Say, on a side note, it just occurred to me that Wikipedia says that stored hydrogen can "attack" the carbon in steel creating "pockets of methane". I wander if this process is part of how carbon deposits get cleaned out of a cars motor: methane is created,vaporizes and gets combusted!
NormTempe, Arizona
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Forum Guru
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NormNip (10/13/2008)
Interesting info, Bob,at the wikipedia embrittlementlink you provided. Thank you. It even talks about combining with the carbon in the steel.As I read it, Wikipedia is talking aboutstoring hydrogen under pressureover a period of time, not combusting it as soon as its under pressure as in a car cylinder - and then releasing the pressure for the exhaust.A question for usthen is how much hydrogen remains uncombusted and available to embrittle; how quickly will this dangerously embrittle the combustion cylinder(few years? centuries?). If it turns out to be decades, I'm not gonna worry because I'll have a new car by then.
Thats the reason we use the bubble so the harmful chemicals don't reach your engine in enough volume to affect the metal in the motor. You can find the smack boosters guy will back that up what I just said here.
We are located in Fort Lauderdale (Plantation) Florida
Anyone with help for a Ford Van 2002 E150 2.4L Engine
Below 40 Mph We have a 100% increase in Gas mileage
Thanks to water4Gas!
We would Like to see a H.H.O. Get Together in the Davie FL
Tower Shopping Center on that Meet on Friday nights for the
Automobiles. This could become another H.H.O. Support center. Please let me know if you local to this area.
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